REAL LIFE COMBAT EXPERIENCE
Jim Giebelhaus’s reply to Lorel Latorilla’s post on “Martial Arts and the Modern Warfare” on the Russian Martial Art Forum:
G’evening Lorel;
Be forewarned that this is a very, very long post. You have to move a lot of dirt to find the nuggets.
I have been following this thread and the responses from others offering their experiences and thoughts regarding your query. As I expected, those of us in the Systema Community who have had hand-to-hand combat experience during war are extremely reluctant to speak openly of it to “outsiders”, those who do not have that experience. I was hoping that some others I know who have this experience would have come forward but they have not and I fully respect that decision.
I gave much thought about whether or not to answer. By writing this I risk opening a very private part of my life to anyone who can click on this thread from the Internet World. I will step up to the task since passing on a combat life survival experience to one who asks for the knowledge can beneficial for both parties. Note that this is from my Military Service background only. No civilian experiences will be offered. Perhaps this will be the mechanism that allows others to relay their experiences opening the door to internal healing.
First, let me set the stage. This is not about me seeking glory, recognition or honors for what I have done. Being alive is a sufficient reward from God. I hope to pass on to you first hand knowledge that may in a future situation save your life just as Sergeant Major A.S Alford, U.S. Marine Corps. did for me.
Background.
Before entering the U.S. Navy, I had studied Japanese Bushido for 5 years under a 7th degree Sensei.
In January of 1963 I received my U.S. Army Draft Notice in the mail (mandatory military service). On advise from my uncles who served in the U.S. Military (various branches) during World War II, I entered the U.S. Navy in January 1963 thereby avoiding the Army yet still serving my Country. My uncles said that it was better to have my bunk under me than on my back.
There were not enough Chief Petty Officers to run boot camp so they recruited Marine Drill Instructors. The training was WW II / Korean War traditional U.S. Marine included hand-to-hand combat, knives/bayonets, rifles (M-1 Grand --- yes I am that old) and fixed bayonets on the rifle. Also going though an obstacle course with live machine gun fire overhead. After boot camp, my military career took me to flight school where I ended up flying an F-4 Phantom off a carrier in South East Asia, AKA Vietnam.
The Experience.
Walking across the flight deck to my plane for a mission with my backseat (Radar/Electronics Officer aka REO), I was stopped by the CAG (Commander Air Group). He dismissed the REO telling him to go back to briefing then turned to me and gave me some maps. He then instructed me to see the Master of Arms, get a helmet, an M-15 (yes I am that old), ammo, flak jacket, radio, into BDUs (Battle Dress Uniform), get on the ground and call air strikes since he just lost his air support ground controller.
About 1-½ hours later I was in a major firefight Southwest of Saigon near the Cambodian border with group of Army Rangers surrounded by North Vietnam Army Regulars (NVA) and Viet Cong (VC) calling air strikes instead of delivering them. A Sergeant took the radio and assigned a Corporal to cover us.
I received requests for air strikes from Ranger field Officers. I set the coordinates, strike codes, what to deliver and where to deliver them. I called code sequences out to the Sergeant who relayed them to the Combat Information Center (CIC), on the Carrier. CIC then vectored the appropriately armed strike aircraft to my called coordinates. On approach, the strike aircraft called for smoke to identify friendly locations. Everything outside the smoke was a target area. “If your not in the smoke, your dead!”
The procedure was to call a strike then move. Repeat the procedure. Repeat the procedure. If you don’t move the enemy targets your signal coordinates with cannon or mortar fire. During the morning of my second day on the ground, our position was overrun with NVA
I was in the middle of calling an air strike when an NVA came over the top of the embankment. When I saw the movement out of the top corner of my right eye, I instinctively began to rise from a squatting position. He tried to bayonet me in the stomach aiming for the diaphragm but slipped on the mud and slope of the trench. As I was rising I also slipped in the mud. He was able to bayonet me along the bottom of my right forearm wounding me. I was able regain my balance quicker than him. By grabbing the top of his AK-47 with my left hand I was able to jerk him forward keeping him off balance.
My adrenalin was so great that while still holding his AK-47 with my left hand I used my right hand to tear out his throat. I didn’t stop and used his AK to kill the four others who were coming over the embankment with it attached to his body by the sling. The fire control selector was on automatic. This whole event happened in less than 7-9 seconds. The look on the face of the Sergeant was one of total shock. He said that he had never see anything like that. I looked at him and ordered him to move, now!
I grabbed my M-15, the AK from the first NVA and ammo bandoliers from the others. That AK kept me alive that day and the next. (NOTE: In those days, the M-15 had serious jamming problems). We lost the Corporal a few minutes later. The Sergeant was now on my right and the Corporal on my left. I turned the Corporal to say something when saw his head fly off his body. The blood went everywhere.
On the morning of the third day, the NVA and VC broke off the attack. I was evacuated back to the carrier and debriefed.
My flight missions were close ground support, bombing runs, Napalm, air-to-air combat (3 kills) and CAP cover.
I survived and am alive today because of my Bushido training, Marine training and the will of God. So, to answer your primary question, yes, MA training is a valuable resource when in a combat situation both physically and mentally. Better to have it than wish you had it and end up dead instead of alive or wounded but still alive. It all about survival.
Summary:
As stated earlier in this thread, warfare has become police actions. Only on very rare occasions will a warfare hand-to-hand combat situation ever present itself and most likely will be totally unplanned and unexpected. An exception would be during a covert operation where direct contact with the enemy cannot be avoided in order to accomplish the mission objective. Other exceptions might include after Nuclear, Biological or Germ attacks were the population panics and resorts to instinctive behavior for survival.
A historical note. Although the Chinese invented gunpowder, they could have but did not choose to invent the gun or cannon. They did invent the mortar but that was for launching fireworks. The ancient philosophy was that if you were going to take a man’s life you were required to do it face to face as a matter of honor. To do otherwise was to lose face.
Another person in an earlier reply mentioned, mechanical, electronic and technological methods/ means will be used to conduct warfare from now and into the future. The robots with machine guns, the F-35 stealth all capable strike fighter where the pilot sits in the aircraft with the computers running it and of course, the drones with the Hellfire missiles flying over Afghanistan or Iraq with 20 something pilots comfortably seated in a chair with a monitor and joystick at Nellis AFB Las Vegas, Nevada operating it. These are just examples with more “advances” to come in the future.
Actions take place in firefights at close to long distances. Even in breaching a building/room there is high probability of a firefight. I seriously doubt that you will have the hand-to-hand experience I had in Nam during your military service. You are most likely to encounter a restraining situation as others have pointed out quite well in this thread. You can learn what you desire by studying and practicing Systema or other MAs of your choice, i.e. Chinese Chin Na that you feel will meet your needs.
In Vietnam the NVA wore uniforms and even the VC wore uniforms of a sort, black PJs. The World is facing a different but old form of enemy. Terrorists do not wear uniforms or stay within their country borders. The hide and attack from sacred places, behind women and children, then con children and disable to carry out their suicide bombings. Your fight will be much different than mine but there will also be many similarities.
Today even in a sniper team the primary objective is to acquire information, not be detected and identify soft/hard targets for the “analysis”. Engagement with the enemy is a last resort situation to be avoided at all costs. In my time, the rules of engagement were much simpler. “Find the enemy, kill the enemy”.
Remember that whether the action is called war or police action, the old axiom of warfare still holds true. Boots on the ground win wars. Never ever forget that axiom.
Prolog.
How has Systema helped me? It was at Summit that Mikahil, Vladimir, Konstantin and Valerie helped me to get over my anger about Vietnam. I lost 16 friends with whom I had grown up with during middle school, high school, college and the Service. Of the 16, 14 were helicopter pilots, 1 a REO and one a ground cruncher (Army Infantry). All are dead yet I am alive. All lost in Nam.
Toward the end of Summit, Vladimir asked how I was feeling. I reflected in thought for a moment then replied that I was at peace. For 42 years I have carried that Nam loss anger and now it was gone because of the immense outpouring of love, giving and hearts of these people. You should know that both Russians and Chinese where on the ground in Vietnam as were American, Australian, British, etc.
My Phantom’s 4-20mm gat pad and my rockets didn’t discriminate the enemy uniforms. In my sights, in the target area, be the mission objective, gone. I have no doubt that they felt the same way about me when they launched SAM IIs and Ack-Ack fire at my plane. It was just a job that needed to be done. Time heals all wounds so the saying goes. When countries pick the wrong leaders people are going to die. The past proved it, the future will confirm it.
After Nam I have been offering help those I can with what I have learned over my 66 years of life when asked. In the past I volunteered as a back county rescuer and avalanche control officer for the U.S. Forestry. Another way I give back is by working on injuries at Systema Seminars. I am so grateful to God, and Mikhail, and Valdimir, and Valerie, and Konstantin and the Systema Community that they all have allow me to enter and be part of their lives.
I will be at Summer Camp 08 if you wish to examine my Nam experience tattoo. If you ask a question, I will try to answer it as honestly and accurately as I can from my experiences for I am free.
There you have it Lorel. Perhaps some others will also contribute to this thread regarding their experiences. These experiences are generally so horrifying that they often are best kept in the dark, unspoken recesses of the mind. I responded to this thread because I am at peace with myself and my deeds due to the experience I had at Summit and the extended Systema family otherwise you would not be reading this diatribe.
I’ve studied/practiced MA for 50 years as of this year. Systema is my last MA. Enough said.
Best wishes and success in your pursuits.
Jim G. in Littleton, Colorado, U.S.A. |
